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This programme contains some strong language
and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing.

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It was a beautiful August day.

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Warm, sunny, beautiful.

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Out of the blue, two FBI agents
whom I'd never met before

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came to our door.

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They were very cordial, very nice -

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I mean, they were lovely -

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{\an8}and asked for DNA samples.

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{\an8}And here, this is nearly two years

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after Jim had been kidnapped.

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We rummaged through one
of Jim's trunks

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for Jim's sample, and found
a toothbrush of his.

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Gave our own.

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And then they left.

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They gave us no context at all.

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Something bad was happening.

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PHONE RINGS

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I got this phone call from
this journalist,

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sobbing on the phone.

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"Who is this?"

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And just told me to look
at the internet,

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look at Twitter.

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And that's when we saw
the horrific image

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of Jim...

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..being beheaded.

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Er...

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I never watched the video,

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but it was an image of Jim on the
ground with his head on his back.

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You know, it's just awful. Awful.

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That was... That was a terrible day,
yeah.

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That was a really, really bad day.

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I was furious.

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{\an8}I wasn't just sad and shocked.

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{\an8}I was enraged.

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{\an8}Yeah, yeah.

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I was in, yeah, a killing rage.

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INTERVIEWER: Did you watch
the entire thing?

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I didn't see James get
his head cut off.

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I saw him make his speech.

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I wish I had more time.

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I wish I could have
the hope of freedom

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and seeing my family once again.

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I was so proud of him -

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because he was so brave.

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I was just so proud of him.

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He was so good.

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Just good. Very good.

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This is James Wright Foley,

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an American citizen
of your country.

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The man - you know, he had, like,
a strong British accent.

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I was very, very angry.

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{\an8}You know, they killed him
very, very,

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{\an8}very bad, man.

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And killed him, like, cowardly,
you know?

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So cowardly.

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So cowardly.

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Today, the entire world is appalled
by the brutal murder

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of Jim Foley by the terrorist group
Isil.

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From governments and peoples across
the Middle East,

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there has to be a common effort
to extract this cancer

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so that it does not spread.

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And we will continue to confront
this hateful terrorism -

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and replace it with a sense of hope
and civility.

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That's what Jim Foley stood for.

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May God bless him,
keep Jim's memory,

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and may God bless the United States
of America.

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President Obama did call us from the
golf course to tell us he was sorry.

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Yeah, that was kind of unfortunate.

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We heard from Pope Francis before
we heard from President Obama.

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As the world reacts to James Foley's
shocking murder...

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Here's Jim doing dishes.

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..his friend, the British
photojournalist

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John Cantlie, is still being held.

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- REPORTER:
- John Cantlie, believed to be being held

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by extremists.

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This is the golden era of jihad.

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Islamic State militants have
released a video

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showing the killing of American
journalist James Foley.

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The jihadis are holding many more
foreign hostages.

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The relationship between torturer
and tortured

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is extremely complex,

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but John had been trained in hostage
survival skills.

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Make yourself useful.

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The location of John Cantlie and his
fellow captives remains unknown.

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With the Islamic State Group

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threatening to murder more hostages,
the world holds its breath.

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I didn't know at what stage
John Cantlie

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was going to be killed.

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So there was this awful wait,

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and I think it was a fortnight.

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Good morning, this is Breakfast with
Bill Turnbull and Louise Minchin.

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Islamic State militants murder
a second American journalist -

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and say a British hostage
could be next.

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Steven Sotloff is murdered.

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Another barbaric beheading,

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another unwatchable video.

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The same British accent behind
the mask and the knife.

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So this terrible cycle has begun.

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David Haines is the third Western
hostage to be killed.

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Prime Minister, what are your
thoughts about the hostage?

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David Haines was a British hero.

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The fact that an aid worker
was taken, held

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and brutally murdered at the hands
of Isil

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sums up what this organisation
stands for.

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This was brutality on a scale that,
you know, we really...

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{\an8}We've had terrorist IRA problems.

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{\an8}We've had, you know...

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{\an8}But this was on another level.

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They claim to do this in the name
of Islam.

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That is nonsense.

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Islam is a religion of peace.

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They are not Muslims.

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They are monsters.

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I thought it was right for me
to personally watch

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these appallingly gruesome
beheading videos -

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because I wanted, you know...

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Well, I wanted the families to know

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that this was not being dealt with
in some dusty corner of Whitehall.

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That I was directly engaged.

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This British man has to pay
the price for your promise,

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Cameron, to arm the Peshmerga
against the Islamic State.

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There were some people in the
intelligence services

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who said, you know, "Do you really
want to do this?

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"In a way, this is Jihadi John
trying to sort of

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"get inside your head."

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And I thought, "No, it's important.
I'm the Prime Minister.

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"These are my citizens."

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Now, a new propaganda video
has been released

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showing a British man who's being
held by Isis militants.

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Each time there was a video,

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{\an8}I'd go to the various, you know,
download sites

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{\an8}and watch the video.

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Hoping that it wasn't John.

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A new video has appeared

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showing a British hostage being
held by extremists

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from Islamic State

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My name is John Cantlie.

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I'm a British journalist
who used to work

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for some of the bigger newspapers
and magazines in the UK.

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Seeing as I've been abandoned
by my Government

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and my fate now lies in the hands
of the Islamic State,

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I have nothing to lose.

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John Cantlie is alive.

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He's seen for the first time
in two years.

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Over the next few programmes,

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I am going to show you the truth -

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as the Western media tries to drag
the public back

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to the abyss of another war...

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It became apparent that he
hadn't been beheaded,

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and then we started to see these
films pop up.

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And he'd obviously, you know,
found a way to survive.

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And I don't want to judge him
in any way.

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I mean, who knows what any of us
would do in those circumstances.

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Neither David, nor his family,
nor we wanted your sympathy,

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Prime Minister.

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What we wanted was your help,

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which, as leader, you could have
given.

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I deeply resent it, Prime Minster.

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Thanks a lot.

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I remember I thought, "Wow, John -
you managed not to be beheaded.

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"That's fucking impressive."

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{\an8}H-However you are manipulating them
is impressive.

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You saw it as that, actually,
he's manipulating them...?

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Yeah. Definitely, yeah.

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If...

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Why not kill him like the rest?

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Now, I know what you're thinking.

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You're thinking, "He's only doing
this because he's a prisoner.

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"He's got a gun at his head

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"and he's being forced to do this,"
right?

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Well, it's true.

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I am a prisoner. That I cannot deny.

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When I saw he hadn't had his head
cut off, I was very excited.

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Because it's a proof of life.

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John was not angry at the British
government.

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He knows the system and he knew
fully what was happening.

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He was doing everything within
his power to just stay alive.

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As I always told him: preserve and
prolong life.

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That's all you have to do.

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Help will come, even if it takes
ten years.

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Preserve and prolong life.

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That's what he was doing -

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preserving and prolonging his life.

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There are two sides to every story.

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Weeks after this video,

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the remaining hostages,

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two aid workers -

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one a British national,
Alan Henning,

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the other an American,
Peter Kassig -

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are beheaded.

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The Islamic State Group is now a
threat on the global stage.

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And America has been unleashing
cruise missiles,

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fighter aircraft and drones.

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Hello, I'm John Cantlie,

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and today we're in the city
of Kobane

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on the Syrian-Turkish border.

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There's suddenly something
different -

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John's in Kobane with this kind of
dyed hair.

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And he appears to be reporting
on the Islamic State side.

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That was, like, "What is going
on here?"

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The Western media -

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and I can't see any of their
journalists

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here in the city of Kobane -

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have been saying recently that
the Islamic State

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are on the retreat.

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All I've seen here is Mujahideen.

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{\an8}I remember thinking,
"That's been edited nicely.

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00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,759
{\an8}"That's been really pieced together.

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{\an8}"That's been cut really well."

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Kobane is now being...

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This is a guy who's a hustler.

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He's got chutzpah. He's constantly
hustling,

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trying to stay in this industry.

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So he knows how to adapt to survive.

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He's working as a journalist,

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showing them how to run the
propaganda machine.

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And he's the last man standing -

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because he's giving them PR advice.

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By 2015, the Islamic State Group
had taken over large swathes

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of land in Syria and Iraq,

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reshaping society with its own
ideology.

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In Iraq, Islamic State Group
fighters

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are on the doorstep of the
capital city, Baghdad.

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And in Syria, the group is claiming
half of the country as its own.

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The revenue streams to Islamic State
were coming from all sides.

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{\an8}They were trading illegal artefacts,
diamonds, gold - you name it.

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I mean, they were basically
a crook state.

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And obviously, they were buying
equipment.

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We will shortly be introducing
a counter-terrorism bill,

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which will include new powers
to disrupt the ability

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of people to travel abroad to fight,

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as well as their ability
to return here -

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and combat the underlying ideology
that feeds,

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supports and sanctions terrorism.

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Thousands leave their
homes across the world,

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including young people and teenagers
from Britain.

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Islamic State Group is in full
recruitment mode.

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Then came this avalanche of social
media messaging.

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A message to all the brothers
in the UK -

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know that the Caliphate
has been established.

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What prevents you from
attaining martyrdom

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and the pleasure of your Lord?

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00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,519
{\an8}Look around you while you sit
in comfort and ask yourself,

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00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,039
{\an8}is this is how you want to die?

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00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,839
GUNSHOTS

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00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,519
The great advertisement
of the Caliphate

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00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,600
as a place you would want to come
and live in.

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I couldn't find anyone in UK
that was, you know,

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willing to just sacrifice their life
in this world

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for the life in the hereafter.

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This was a whole new level of
death cult recruitment.

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But there is nothing more barbaric

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00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:35,199
than those human beings did

254
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,999
to innocent human beings, right?

255
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,039
Right, this pool is like
an ice bath.

256
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,599
Freezing cold!

257
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,319
Woohoo, cold!

258
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,559
"Come out and join us -

259
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:47,559
"we'll give you as many girls
as you want."

260
00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,959
Right? "Come and live like kings."

261
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,400
Yeah, it worked, right?

262
00:13:54,031 --> 00:14:00,319
{\an8}These guys, they used to use the
internet every single day,

263
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,439
{\an8}putting up the tweets,
putting up pictures.

264
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,999
When they go to a restaurant,
take a picture of a coffee.

265
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,559
He just wanted to feel,

266
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,450
or she just wanted to feel like
she's having a normal life.

267
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,999
Islamic State's message was
broadcast

268
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,199
{\an8}fairly unfiltered.

269
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,479
{\an8}"This is how we look after
the community. This is..."

270
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,159
You know, "We're giving food
to the poor.

271
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,999
{\an8}"We are helping with education.

272
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,040
{\an8}"We're helping with infrastructure
projects."

273
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,319
They continue to build new dwellings
out of this gorgeous white stone.

274
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:37,280
And, er, John was very much part
of the marketing machine.

275
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,239
This is a waiting room

276
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,799
where normal civilians wait to see
a Sharia court judge.

277
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,439
And like any other waiting room

278
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,359
of any other law court in the world,

279
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,119
they're playing TV in the
background.

280
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,599
This being the Islamic State,

281
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,439
they're playing Islamic State
videos.

282
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,599
And I must say, they are a lot more
entertaining

283
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,559
than watching the News at Six.

284
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,119
Sharia courts.

285
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,239
"It's OK to cut someone's hand off

286
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,479
"because look how much it
creates discipline," -

287
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:04,999
all that jazz.

288
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,559
The Mujahideen are not fazed
by the bombings at all

289
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,999
and continue to conduct classes
on the banks

290
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,759
of the Euphrates River.

291
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,640
He finds himself very quickly
as their little media guru.

292
00:15:16,641 --> 00:15:20,239
But if he made another video
and was allowed out,

293
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,960
is that an opportunity to escape?

294
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,679
The Islamic State media wing
was huge -

295
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,199
spread across different cities,
different towns.

296
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,999
And the great advertisement of
the Caliphate

297
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,559
varied from, you know,
hearts and minds

298
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,759
to extreme violence -

299
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,360
of your kind of worst, most twisted
imaginings.

300
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,079
You know, immolation of the
Jordanian pilot in the cage,

301
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,279
through to, in Iraq, people getting
dunked in cages

302
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,720
in swimming pools.

303
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,119
For many people,

304
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,999
extreme violence had not a message
of repulsion,

305
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,880
but a message of attraction.

306
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,239
Thousands of young men and women
from around the world

307
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,439
felt like that and went to join.

308
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,559
Hello, I'm John Cantlie,

309
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,999
and today we're on top of the world
in Mosul,

310
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,359
{\an8}overlooking the second largest city
in Iraq -

311
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,479
{\an8}and under the complete control
of the Islamic State

312
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,719
for over five months.

313
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,639
It's the absolute heartland
of the Caliphate

314
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,239
and home to nearly two million
people

315
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,920
from every walk of life.

316
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,799
Suddenly, video came out
of Mosul,

317
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,240
and that was even more radical.

318
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,919
John's driving around, reporting.

319
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,999
No visit to a Muslim country
would be complete

320
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,999
without doing some shopping
at a souk.

321
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,279
And everywhere you look,
everywhere you come

322
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,799
here in this old, old souk -

323
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,199
it's one of the oldest in Mosul -

324
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,599
you're struck by just how...

325
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,159
Whoop!

326
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,319
..normal and crazy and busy
everything is.

327
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,519
This is not a city living in fear,

328
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,999
as the Western media would have
you believe.

329
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,640
This is just a normal city going
about its daily business.

330
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,279
We have to wrap up at the souk now
and move on to the next place,

331
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,999
but there's a huge crowd of people
around us.

332
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,319
This is not an empty, deserted,
depressed place at all.

333
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,840
This is bustling, and we have
to move on.

334
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,119
It's clear from his body language
and from his speech

335
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,279
that he wasn't immediately worried
about being killed.

336
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,679
He's had a bit of sun on his face.

337
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,319
He's got a bit condition back.

338
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,439
He's having a bit of a laugh, too.

339
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,999
Down here! Over here!

340
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,479
Jeering at coalition aircraft.

341
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,479
Try to rescue me again!

342
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,000
Do something!

343
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:22,999
Useless! Absolutely useless!

344
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,279
And one of his big loves
was motorbikes.

345
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,919
Suddenly, he's back on a bike.

346
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,319
Here we are patrolling the streets
of Mosul.

347
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,279
It's been a while since I've ridden
a motorcycle

348
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,519
so excuse me if I wobble around
a bit.

349
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,679
But it seems that the police
are almost redundant,

350
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,239
despite having a very firm presence
here in Mosul.

351
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,439
There's really very little crime
being committed

352
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:45,839
from what I can see.

353
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,479
Just people going about
their business.

354
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,759
And nothing like the police before,

355
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,999
who would run at the slightest sign
of trouble.

356
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,479
Anyway, we've got to go
and patrol now.

357
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,880
SIREN WAILS

358
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,719
In one way, you could see it
as looking quite complicit.

359
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,999
And some people did see it
as quite complicit.

360
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,639
They were like, "Oh, he's either got
Stockholm syndrome

361
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,719
"or he has, you know, been exposed
to so much sort of

362
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,279
"radicalisation in his time
as hostage

363
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,839
"that he's kind of gone off
that way himself."

364
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,479
Playing in the background
is a screen.

365
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:25,599
This is a media place here in Mosul
showing me reporting from Kobane.

366
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,559
Around the city, John's propaganda
videos are being screened

367
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,999
by the Islamic State Group.

368
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,679
Media booths were places where there
was a screen,

369
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,319
where Islamic State films -

370
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,999
by this time, usually
atrocity films -

371
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,439
were shown to the public.

372
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,479
Those booths were by every kind of
big roundabout or intersection,

373
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:44,999
and often people were corralled
at gun point

374
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,199
to sit down and watch them.

375
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,639
It wasn't like getting a ticket,
right?

376
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,359
And he's referencing the screen
behind him

377
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,759
in which he, John Cantlie, appears.

378
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,199
And there I am in the background.

379
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,399
All the way here in Mosul,

380
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,919
and here I am on the streets.

381
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,999
That was me then, and this
is me now -

382
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,640
and it just shows how much territory
the Islamic State are controlling.

383
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,439
Before his kidnapping,

384
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,999
he wanted to be a foreign
correspondent.

385
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,999
You know, a war reporter
going into the field.

386
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,319
Ironically, he's now become famous -

387
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,999
you know, doing pieces to camera
and stuff.

388
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,759
The videos that he made were
becoming quite viral.

389
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,599
So there was a lot of reporting
around that.

390
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,519
There was no-one really actually
telling the story

391
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,719
of his survival or going into it
in a deeper way.

392
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,439
He was basically the bad guy,

393
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,919
and that's how he was coming across.

394
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,639
There was no counter-argument.

395
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,679
And a lot of people that knew John
felt that this was unfair, right?

396
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:37,999
John is not the bad guy.

397
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,119
He's trying to survive in any way
that he knows how.

398
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,119
Like most of us would, right?
We would try and survive.

399
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:45,719
Because what's the alternative?

400
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,440
Because, you know, the alternative
is he's beheaded.

401
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,999
In Madrid, John's former
fellow hostage,

402
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,639
Javier Espinosa,

403
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,599
is facing some resistance
in publishing his story

404
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,919
about his own captivity.

405
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:04,719
{\an8}I published the story of
my kidnapping

406
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,519
{\an8}one year after I was released.

407
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,839
The sister of John told me,

408
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,559
"Please don't publish this
in English,

409
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,160
"because it will affect John."

410
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,319
We strongly challenge those
holding John to return

411
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,360
to your previously opened channel.

412
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,960
We implore IS to reinitiate
direct contact.

413
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,719
During the phone call, Javier
is asked not to publish

414
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,160
the article in English.

415
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,239
She stopped the articles,

416
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,759
and the articles were not published.

417
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,399
Because I couldn't... I mean,
it was the sister

418
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,999
of a guy who was kidnapped.

419
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,239
I couldn't.

420
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,999
But I'm sure, from my conversation
with her,

421
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,759
the government was still putting
pressure on her

422
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,560
not to allow this information to be
released

423
00:22:57,561 --> 00:23:01,079
The British government, I think,
would say

424
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,679
it is unsafe for him, it raises
his profile.

425
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,719
What do you say to that?

426
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,359
At that time, it's...

427
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:10,999
I mean, everybody was killed.

428
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,800
What they care is about
more public pressure.

429
00:23:14,801 --> 00:23:18,599
Foreign Office are advising
the family

430
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,760
that you must not speak
to the press.

431
00:23:20,761 --> 00:23:24,159
I understand if you have
a government

432
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,119
that's advising you not to speak,

433
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:27,839
then you're going to take
the advice.

434
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,999
But was the advice in John's
interests?

435
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,280
I found it troubling. The family
don't want this.

436
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,279
So no newspaper wants to touch it,

437
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:40,719
no magazine wants to touch it.

438
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,599
The broadcasters were having
the same problem.

439
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,999
I was aware there was a Panorama
going on.

440
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,799
They were making a BBC documentary -
which never saw the light of day.

441
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,520
Because lots of stories are told
without the consent of families.

442
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,999
It happens all the time.

443
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,279
This seems to be an extraordinary
exception.

444
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,000
And then here's the worst thing
for me about that is that...

445
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,599
Let's just assume that John managed
to get onto Google, right?

446
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,999
In a moment. Maybe a guard gave him
a phone and just said, you know,

447
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,599
"You can look on Google
for 20 seconds."

448
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,239
He wouldn't have seen anything
about himself.

449
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,319
All he... All John would've seen
was a blank space.

450
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,479
What's that going to do?

451
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,160
It's going to push him further
towards his captors.

452
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,999
And that is the worst.

453
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,320
That's a betrayal.

454
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,999
In Paris, shocking images capture
two masked men

455
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,679
killing 12 people in and around
the office

456
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,879
of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo

457
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,680
for publishing controversial
Prophet Muhammad cartoons.

458
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,640
Europe is on high alert.

459
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,799
{\an8}In response to the attacks, a French
foreign fighter tells John

460
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,840
about the necessity of spilling
blood in Europe.

461
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,799
Some people are... "Hang on."

462
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,679
Like, "What's going on here?"

463
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,799
And there were definitely
senior officers

464
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,279
in the British military who said

465
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,999
if he ever comes back, he's going to
be charged for treason.

466
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,079
And I know that -

467
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,799
not as supposition,
but for fact.

468
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,279
Because I've sat in on those
conversations.

469
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,999
I would have people say to me,
"Did you see what's...?"

470
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,599
Like, what are you on? Smack?

471
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,319
You honestly think this guy is going
to believe this shit?

472
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,759
I mean, come on, you know?

473
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,879
It's like, what is wrong
with you people?

474
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,639
But people drink the Kool-Aid,
you know?

475
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,759
What were people saying about him?

476
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,999
Well, people began to take the view

477
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,999
that he was a turned Islamic State
asset.

478
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,119
I mean, think about that.

479
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,399
What does that even mean?

480
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,759
This is a death cult.

481
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,439
It has no sophistication
to turn assets!

482
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,239
- KEVIN SCOFFS
- Right? He was useful. The end.

483
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,199
These people are scum.

484
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,440
He wasn't.

485
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,319
Going from being a middle class
white boy

486
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,479
with military roots
and connections

487
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,999
to a death cult raping and burning
people alive, what?

488
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,999
- Come on.
- Who were these people saying this stuff?

489
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,999
Well, I mean, I had military
commanders in Britain

490
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,480
at quite senior level.

491
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,559
And intelligence officers I knew.

492
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,670
You know, career intelligence
officers.

493
00:26:51,301 --> 00:26:53,999
There were drones in Mosul,

494
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,399
and now there are drones flying
overhead here in Al Bab -

495
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,199
just northeast of Halab.

496
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,319
But life continues.

497
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,999
The Mujahideen really don't care
how many eyes in the sky

498
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,440
are looking down on them.

499
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,399
If John Cantlie was going
to survive,

500
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,599
he could not look too challenging
or too cynical.

501
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,599
Indiscriminate bombing...

502
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,199
John had to have this chameleon
role.

503
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,479
..by American jets...

504
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,679
I spoke to someone very close
to John

505
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,439
who explained to me that America had
declared John a person of interest

506
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,999
because of his relationship
with Isis.

507
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,319
Potentially directly involved
in war crimes,

508
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,119
but certainly, you know,

509
00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,880
directly in league with
the terrorists.

510
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,559
And that really cut me to the quick,

511
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,999
because, you know, it's clear,
right,

512
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,319
that he is adapting to survive.

513
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,679
Was he ever considered a person
of interest by the UK?

514
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,279
Person of interest in...?

515
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,679
Was John Cantlie ever considered
a person of interest?

516
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,000
Not to my knowledge.

517
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,439
Do you think he was ever considered
a person of interest by the US?

518
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,999
I-I don't...

519
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,999
I don't know.

520
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,720
I don't recall ever hearing that.

521
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,279
The search continues to identify a
British member of Islamic State

522
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,799
who's suspected of killing
the American journalist

523
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,319
James Foley.

524
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,999
Britain's, you know, not looking
great here.

525
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,319
Everyone's British.

526
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,559
The kidnappers are British.

527
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,999
John's British.

528
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,279
I mean, so it's a mess.

529
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,879
The person who kills James Foley -
British, right?

530
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,000
So everyone's like, "Oh, my God,
who is the masked killer?"

531
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,439
Then it is revealed, his identity,

532
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,399
Mohammed Emwazi, from West London.

533
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,119
It was very shocking that someone
who was brought up in London,

534
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,479
educated at a school -

535
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,679
you know, not far from where
I live in West London -

536
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,999
could behead British citizens
in the desert

537
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,999
on behalf of some crazed Islamist
extremist death cult.

538
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,199
This is Emwazi's family home
in West London.

539
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,159
A couple of the hostages come out
and say,

540
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,999
"Yeah, and the guys with him,

541
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,480
"John used to nickname the Beatles."

542
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,120
They were involved directly
in John's torture.

543
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,719
The remaining Beatles are also
from West London.

544
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,999
A former drug dealer,
Alexanda Kotey,

545
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,360
and his friend,
El Shafee Elsheikh.

546
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,239
The two men were known
around the community

547
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,040
and were friends with Hamza.

548
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,479
Alexanda and Shafee, both of them,
are...

549
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,080
Were very good friends of mine.

550
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,559
Hamza claims to not know that his
two close friends

551
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,040
were holding John captive.

552
00:29:46,041 --> 00:29:50,399
I really didn't know what they
were working as, at all.

553
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,599
I didn't even have, like, an idea.

554
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,999
I thought they were in something
to do with the military.

555
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,359
There was no signs or telltale signs
that they were working

556
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,559
in what they say that they
were working as.

557
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,119
Did you do anything out there
that you regretted?

558
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,000
HAMZA STAMMERS

559
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,999
In Syria?

560
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,399
Or Iraq?

561
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,639
No.

562
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:10,799
Did you kill anyone?

563
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,479
No. No.

564
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,040
I didn't kill anyone. I didn't take
any hostages.

565
00:30:18,191 --> 00:30:22,999
{\an8}Did you witness any
executions with IS?

566
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,319
{\an8}No.

567
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,479
{\an8}Did you take part in any
executions under IS?

568
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,679
{\an8}No.

569
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,839
Did you meet James Foley?

570
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,119
No.

571
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,319
Nero Saraiva posted a tweet

572
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,279
weeks before James' death,

573
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,440
foretelling the murder to come.

574
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,680
It read:

575
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,599
Was that tweet from you? Yes or no?

576
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,040
No.

577
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,439
It came from your account.

578
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,479
I don't know this.
I don't...

579
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:01,799
I remember using it...

580
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,479
I didn't even use Twitter that much.

581
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,160
I remember just using it maybe
once or twice.

582
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,999
The Ayes to the right, 524.

583
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,880
The Noes to the left, 43.

584
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,559
In September, 2014,

585
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,479
David Cameron was granted permission
by Parliament

586
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,399
to strike Islamic State Group
insurgents in Iraq,

587
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,510
with the support of the Iraqi
government.

588
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,519
This struggle against Islamist,
extremist terrorism -

589
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,080
this is the struggle
of our generation.

590
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,359
Across the region, Islamic State
Group is reinventing warfare,

591
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,879
using inexpensive
commercial drones -

592
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,519
not only to film propaganda videos,

593
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,800
but to carry bombs and explosives.

594
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,759
Britain commissioned our own
sovereign drone programme,

595
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,159
under our control,

596
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,119
so we were bringing our own assets
and our own ability

597
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,359
to take out a terrorist target -

598
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,600
as well as working alongside
the Americans.

599
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,519
You need the capability to act,

600
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,680
and I was very keen that
we should do that.

601
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,999
More often it was Reaper drones.

602
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,919
Sometimes targets that were being
piloted from some distance.

603
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,679
And sometimes being guided
onto targets

604
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,200
visible to special forces.

605
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,439
We were always hoping some little
piece of intelligence

606
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,240
would come up about where the
Beatles themselves were.

607
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,999
This is the first time in any
recent conflict

608
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,759
that British forces have targeted
a British national

609
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,999
suspected of terrorism.

610
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,479
This is a message to the brothers
who've stayed behind.

611
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,759
Reyaad Khan, 21 years old,
from Cardiff,

612
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,999
appearing last year in this
Islamic State

613
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,559
recruitment video.

614
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,840
Now he's been specifically targeted
and killed by his own country.

615
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,399
A lot of Brits got hit by drones.

616
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,079
I've been in a car.

617
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,119
The rocket's come from the window
and has hit the guy next to me.

618
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,639
A rocket flew past me,

619
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,999
and it turned a guy into...

620
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,879
I'm sorry, and it turned a guy
into minced meat.

621
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,399
He's in the passenger seat.

622
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:30,800
Nothing happened to me.

623
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,840
Good morning.

624
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,239
Last night, the United States
carried out

625
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,759
an air strike in Raqqa, Syria,

626
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,119
targeting Mohammed Emwazi,

627
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,400
the Isil executioner known as
Jihadi John.

628
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,719
He posed an ongoing and serious
threat to innocent civilians -

629
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,439
not only in Syria,

630
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,679
but around the world and in
the United Kingdom, too.

631
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,559
He was Isil's lead executioner.

632
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,839
And let us never forget
that he killed

633
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,880
many, many Muslims, too.

634
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,279
It was an American and British
operation.

635
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,839
It was ultimately an
American strike,

636
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,599
but it could just as well have been
a British one.

637
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,190
And if it had been, I'd be sitting
here defending it.

638
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,319
But ultimately his appalling reign
of terror

639
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,560
was brought to an end.

640
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:31,559
I would have much preferred

641
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,639
he'd been brought to justice

642
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,999
and had an opportunity to explain
his why

643
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,039
and face the consequences of
his actions.

644
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,480
Er...

645
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,239
I was rather horrified
by the drone strike, to be honest.

646
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:52,999
So I don't think that kind
of brutality

647
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,800
fixes the brutality we had endured,
to be honest.

648
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:04,719
David Cameron, the Prime Minister
of six years,

649
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,119
resigns.

650
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,479
I leave office in 2016,

651
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,399
but by this time we had
started working

652
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,999
with the legitimate Iraqi
government,

653
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,639
with Prime Minister Abadi,

654
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,319
who wanted to be a non-sectarian
leader of Iraq

655
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,000
and wanted to help the Iraqi army
defeat Isil.

656
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,200
The international fightback against
the Islamic State Group has begun.

657
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,999
And now, across the border in Syria,

658
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,119
President Assad is pushing out
the Islamic State Group

659
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,759
with the support of his ally,

660
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,239
Russian president Vladimir Putin.

661
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:42,479
And back in Iraq,

662
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,759
the Iraqi army is being supported
by the UK, US,

663
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,439
and a coalition of other countries,

664
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,000
to take back the last Islamic State
Group stronghold, Mosul.

665
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,190
{\an8}The place where John has
last been seen.

666
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,199
Hello, I'm John Cantlie,

667
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,199
and today we're at Mosul University,

668
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,479
or at least what's left
of Mosul University.

669
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,639
If you look behind me...

670
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,159
John disappears for a while,

671
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,439
and then suddenly he starts
popping up in 2016 again,

672
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,319
by which time his condition has
worsened significantly.

673
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,599
By this stage, John has been held
for nearly four years.

674
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,999
He's thin, gaunt,

675
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,599
moving with a slight cramp
on one side of his body,

676
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,199
suggesting he might've been wounded
or badly beaten

677
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,679
or otherwise injured,

678
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,999
or that he's being held in an
extremely confined

679
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,359
kind of space.

680
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,879
This is the Yabessat district
of Mosul.

681
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,639
It's a very normal region.

682
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:51,999
Normal people live here.

683
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,999
The thing for me was the degradation
of John on camera.

684
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,439
That's what upset me.

685
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,999
H-His cheekbones hollowed out.

686
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,999
He looked gaunt, right?

687
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,679
Psychologically lost.

688
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,999
The way that he spoke,

689
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,999
it was just an absolute
deterioration

690
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,399
of a person.

691
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,799
All that energy that John had,
all that potential,

692
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,199
all of that restlessness -

693
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,999
and probably that idealism, right -
it had gone.

694
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,519
It had just been stripped away
from him.

695
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:21,840
Stripped bare.

696
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,559
Andre Liohn, a photographer
from John's

697
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,840
freelance circle, arrives
in Mosul...

698
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,600
..and embeds himself with the
Iraqi federal police.

699
00:37:35,601 --> 00:37:39,119
Many times in my life,
I have decided,

700
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,919
"I will never go back to war."

701
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,320
And I found a girlfriend,
I fall in love.

702
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,519
But when she broke up with me,
I was totally destroyed.

703
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,360
And suddenly, everything like...

704
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,399
You know?

705
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,840
"Let's go to war!"

706
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,599
They gave me a name,

707
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,639
which was Andre Al-Jabahat.

708
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,359
"The front line."

709
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,119
You know, Andre The Front Line.

710
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,040
SHOUTING

711
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,919
Mosul is...

712
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,079
..a million and a half, I think,
people living there.

713
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,719
And it's divided by the river,
the Tigris.

714
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:44,999
The East Side was easily taken -

715
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,799
like, because all the civilians,

716
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,360
they managed to escape to Erbil,
to Kurdistan.

717
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,999
I was there during the battle
for Mosul.

718
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,999
By that stage, the Iraqis had taken
most of the East Bank -

719
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,719
but only a tiny bit of
the West Bank.

720
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,239
And saw some fairly intense
stuff there.

721
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,999
Half the guys that I encountered,
they'd got suicide belts on.

722
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,439
So, if it gets too much, then they
just click and "gadoom".

723
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:13,839
And I remember very well,

724
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,799
this Islamic State woman had come.

725
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,239
She'd rushed. She'd rushed a Humvee.

726
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:20,839
And she had a suicide belt on.

727
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,040
So she pops herself, and her head
went off like a champagne cork.

728
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,399
On the East Bank,

729
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,439
there was a hospital.

730
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,479
It was in an Islamic State area,

731
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,839
close to the area where John
was last seen.

732
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,759
One day in December, 2016,

733
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,039
a huge Iraqi column pushes forward
to the hospital

734
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,279
to try and secure it.

735
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,239
They get in, and they secure it,

736
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,639
but they don't completely secure it.

737
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,999
Other Islamic State guys come
pouring in from the city

738
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,399
and cut them off.

739
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,319
There was a whole lot of
Islamic State fighters -

740
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,790
with a whole lot of terrified
doctors and nurses.

741
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,319
The Iraqi army, though,
get annihilated.

742
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,399
Their APCs are blown up,

743
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:45,879
the tanks are blown up,

744
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,200
loads of guys killed.

745
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,639
Suddenly, two or three days
after that battle,

746
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,040
John pops up again.

747
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,279
{\an8}OK, we're absolutely on
the front line now

748
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,999
{\an8}of the fight here in Mosul.

749
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,399
{\an8}We're in the centre of Mosul,

750
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,799
{\an8}a little way east,

751
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,359
{\an8}and behind me it looks like a scene
out of a Steven Spielberg film,

752
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,199
except this is for real.

753
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,799
This was an Iraqi army base here
in the centre of Mosul,

754
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,999
and now you can see behind me
it's complete destruction.

755
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:26,359
I've counted about 18,
25 BMPs destroyed.

756
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,199
Now, speaking with some of
the Mujahideen,

757
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,799
they say the Iraqi army
took the bait.

758
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,999
This is exactly what they
wanted them to do.

759
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,399
They took the bait like a fish
that grabs a lure.

760
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,999
OK? The Mujahideen have
drawn them in

761
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,999
to the centre here in Mosul.

762
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,999
So we're going to walk down there

763
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,799
and get a closer look at some of
the stuff down there now.

764
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,790
Come with me now and we'll
go down there.

765
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,879
Come with me. You've got to be
careful of your step here.

766
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,199
There's a lot of grenades

767
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,200
and unexploded ordnance all around.

768
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,439
Like I said, this was the Al-Salam
Hospital.

769
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:04,999
Literally, it's just here.

770
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,799
So there were a few casualties,
I believe.

771
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,599
Fortunately, I think the Mujahideen
got most of the people

772
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,279
evacuated out of this area before
the fighting started.

773
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,679
But I mean, the destruction,
the carnage is total.

774
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,999
I haven't seen war like this
for a long time.

775
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,999
It's absolutely... There's still
smoke

776
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:23,999
coming out of that BMP there.

777
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,319
This is part of the hospital
network here, so...

778
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,239
Oh, here we are.

779
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:31,799
This used to belong to
an Iraqi soldier,

780
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,680
but I don't think he's going
to be needing it now, huh?

781
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,839
For many Iraqi soldiers
watching that,

782
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,119
they were like,

783
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,479
"You, my friend, are dead.

784
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,999
"You are one of them.

785
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,839
"You are celebrating their victory
over our soldiers,

786
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,680
"and you are abusing our
dead soldiers."

787
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,319
This is one guy that didn't make it.

788
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,879
Another Iraqi soldier
bites the dust.

789
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,759
And this is exactly what's waiting
for all the Iraqi soldiers

790
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:04,999
in this area.

791
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,319
The Mujahideen draw them in

792
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,599
and their anti-tank hunting teams
smash them and their vehicles -

793
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,879
like this one, this fellow
next to me.

794
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,999
And this is pretty much all that's
waiting for the Iraqi army

795
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,280
here in Mosul.

796
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,599
I'd had a few phone calls

797
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,239
from associates

798
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,999
who had asked me very
specifically -

799
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,999
one call was a good friend -

800
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,759
about what I thought about
John Cantlie.

801
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,999
About, personally, now,

802
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,679
what was my now new view?

803
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,559
To which, of course, I said
I have no new view.

804
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,240
I only have the same view.

805
00:44:45,121 --> 00:44:48,519
He's not selling the secrets, is he?

806
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,759
He's not disclosing where the
UK Special Forces

807
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,119
are based, right?

808
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,359
He's helping them make
a fucking video.

809
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,520
Big wow.

810
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,599
But it was propaganda.

811
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,199
And when you make propaganda,

812
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,559
you're seen as being very much
part of the problem.

813
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,399
The harder the guy plays to survive,

814
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,199
the more and more his chances narrow

815
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,159
as members of the establishment,

816
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,999
who might actually be those who
can secure his release, become...

817
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,399
..to believe that, in fact, maybe

818
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,080
he has become part of the enemy.

819
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:40,399
If your job is only to close off
Isis and destroy them,

820
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,600
you have to kill all the young men.

821
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,199
They are bombing the very last
point where there were...

822
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,320
..members of Daesh, you know?

823
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,239
They just went for a final push.

824
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:03,719
And, like, a week later,

825
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:06,000
they had declared victory.

826
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,040
EXCITED CHATTER
DISTANT GUNFIRE

827
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,239
The United States killed
civilians, as well.

828
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:30,200
Lots of people that had been
killed there, their children.

829
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,480
Russia had done
the same with Aleppo.

830
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,200
You know, there is a body
of a small baby.

831
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,519
The baby was born in the war

832
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,319
and killed in the war as a soldier,

833
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,639
because he was already dressed
as a soldier.

834
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,519
They made no distinctions, you know?

835
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,639
Because many people say,
"They were all Isis."

836
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,679
I say, "Well, fair enough,
they were Isis.

837
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,239
"But they were not combatants."

838
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,639
You know, they were not combatants.

839
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,039
And this group here of soldiers
that I am with,

840
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,039
they are here...

841
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,560
EXCITED SHOUTING

842
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,559
They are here to...

843
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,679
..to take any member of this
Islamic State that tries

844
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,920
to escape through the river here.

845
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,870
OFF-CAMERA: How did it feel
to round up the Isis suspects?

846
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,919
I saw them torturing people,

847
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,279
you know, and immediately,
I imagined John,

848
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,039
because no-one had been
talking about John any more.

849
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,079
John had completely disappeared.

850
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,159
And I asked the commander,

851
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,079
"Do you know about John?"

852
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:35,039
You know, "This British journalist,"
so on, so on, so on.

853
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,839
"Yes, we know about him.
He's Isis now.

854
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,159
"If we meet him, we kill them.

855
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,399
"We will kill him."

856
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,680
You know.

857
00:49:30,411 --> 00:49:37,119
OFF-CAMERA: Do you think that some
people were justified in thinking

858
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,199
he'd maybe turned or joined Isis?

859
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,919
I just, I don't know. Erm...

860
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,599
As I say,
I don't want to judge him.

861
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,359
He was in appalling circumstances.

862
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,319
He had to make, you know, choices.

863
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,359
And who knows what any of us
would do in those circumstances?

864
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,319
Erm, I never heard anyone, you know,

865
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,079
make any particular
judgments about him.

866
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,519
It was just this, you know,
tragic case of...

867
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,359
..someone we hadn't been able to
find and hadn't been able to rescue.

868
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,719
We're interested in John Cantlie,
and finding out about

869
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,199
what happened to him. What have
you heard from other people?

870
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,399
They say that, you know,
John Cantlie was inside.

871
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,479
He was, like, he chose to be inside,
and he wanted to be inside.

872
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,119
And he made a video from inside,
from inside the siege of Mosul,

873
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,359
and he was actually -
he chose to stay in Islamic State,

874
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,480
er, and he liked it.

875
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,599
You have to understand, I'm in
prison with people that was there.

876
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,039
They bombed Mosul.

877
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:37,639
He was in it.

878
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,360
So, they say they never
made it out alive.

879
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,679
I know, from what I know
I heard one guy say this,

880
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,839
that the building that these
people were in was bombed.

881
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,199
You know, that's it.

882
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:56,159
This building got, er...destroyed.

883
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,719
And he must have been inside

884
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:00,120
and no-one made it out of it.

885
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,439
Kev is in a unique position,

886
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,639
and it's not the same position
that I'm in -

887
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,799
in that he signed
the Official Secrets Act,

888
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,399
and he was a member of the
Special Forces community.

889
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,919
So, he will know far more context
about Special Forces' view

890
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,000
in what happened in Mosul.

891
00:51:23,001 --> 00:51:26,919
OFF-CAMERA: What do you know about
the circumstances of John's death?

892
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,479
I don't know anything to do
with his death.

893
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,119
I mean, it was a
very kinetic period.

894
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,039
There was a lot of people
they wanted to get,

895
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,479
that they knew of.

896
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,639
And so...

897
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,239
..I don't know.

898
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:41,680
HE SIGHS

899
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:45,039
What have you heard?

900
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,360
What have I heard?

901
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,600
Well, I've heard that he's dead.

902
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,600
Which is kind of self-explanatory.

903
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:04,160
Was John...killed by people
that knew it was him?

904
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:11,239
I don't know if people had
a particular view that,

905
00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:14,119
if he's in a car or
he's in a building,

906
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,839
and he happens to be
close to a target,

907
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,879
we won't call that off as a result.

908
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,079
I don't know how they deconflict.

909
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,120
And the procedure for signing off
on those are not known to me.

910
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,359
We know who he was with
and around which time,

911
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,519
and we know how many of those people

912
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,399
are probably now not around
any more.

913
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,319
So, you don't really need
to be too smart

914
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,439
to draw linear conclusions.

915
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,159
The state will always do
what's best for the majority,

916
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,039
not for an individual.

917
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:56,159
There isn't the resources
to care about everyone.

918
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:00,239
So, the state has acted, I think,

919
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:03,759
{\an8}as appropriately as it is capable of
doing with the resources it has,

920
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,079
{\an8}and the means of which
to execute them.

921
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,039
The outcome is the same.

922
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,439
The Islamic State was destroyed,

923
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,960
but a lot of people had to die.

924
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,680
I kept my eyes open for John.

925
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,039
You couldn't walk without
stepping on dead people.

926
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:31,719
You couldn't walk.

927
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:33,800
Everywhere you went,
you couldn't walk.

928
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,039
And a soldier came to me.

929
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,840
He said, "Come with me.
I'm going to show you something."

930
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,440
And there was a man lying
with this camera.

931
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,999
And the body was very,
you know, decomposed.

932
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,079
The skin was very dark already,
like, decomposed,

933
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,719
and the camera was with him.

934
00:53:57,720 --> 00:53:59,679
I went to see,
where is the memory card?

935
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,799
"Oh, we took the memory cards."

936
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,839
There was no lens
in the camera, nothing.

937
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,000
And I said, "Can I take the camera?"

938
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,080
"Yeah, you can take the camera.
Go on," you know?

939
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,800
And I took the camera with me.

940
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,719
John had the exact same camera.
Right?

941
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:22,200
Maybe the person who had
the camera was him.

942
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,680
I don't know.

943
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:37,240
John Cantlie's body has
never been found.

944
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,960
I got to know John Cantlie
after his death...

945
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:47,600
..as a journalist.

946
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,319
I went to many of the places
that had been held,

947
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,760
speaking to dozens
and dozens of people.

948
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,520
Ultimately, it was a very
sad journey, but illuminating.

949
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,520
I found out that John managed to get
coded messages out to his family.

950
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,679
On July the Fourth,
Independence Day,

951
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,200
the Americans did try
to get us out of prison.

952
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,559
{\an8}He managed to reference
a bogus American official,

953
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,159
{\an8}giving the name, actually,
that it's of his nephew, Pocock.

954
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,679
"We're not sure if we missed him
by 12 minutes or 12 hours",

955
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,800
said Hector Pocock,
a Special Operations spokesman.

956
00:55:30,801 --> 00:55:34,559
These were just messages
for his family to know

957
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,319
that he was still thinking of them,

958
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,759
and probably, too, to prove that
he still had the wit to be able

959
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,839
to get a subliminal message
out to them,

960
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,400
to prove that he wasn't merely
a tool of Islamic State propaganda.

961
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,999
- DANIEL:
- He didn't want to be used the way they ended up using him.

962
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,439
The last thing John
said to me was that,

963
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,719
"If you ever have the opportunity,
then when you come home,

964
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:04,279
"please tell our Secret Service,

965
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,919
"like, if they ever have
an opportunity,

966
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,279
"just put a bomb onto our heads

967
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,639
"so we will not end up
as propaganda tools".

968
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,679
That was the last thing he said
to me before I was released.

969
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,080
"Please kill us before they use us."

970
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,360
And that...that was difficult.

971
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,040
But to hear people speculate
and things like that is like...

972
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,199
..you know.

973
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:36,600
So, I think John is very good at...
keeping himself alive.

974
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,160
And he also did that
for a long time.

975
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,600
Much longer than anybody
could expect him.

976
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,759
When I talk today with, like,
for example, students,

977
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,399
that are 16, 17, 20 years old,

978
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,399
Isis is being forgotten already,
you know?

979
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,479
We think that people know,
but they don't.

980
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,039
And more than that, more than that,

981
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,359
John's story has been forgotten.

982
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,520
They don't know even about, like,
you know James Foley, nothing.

983
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,759
You know, jihadists may have
killed his body,

984
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,519
but Jim's spirit and his goodness,

985
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,280
they just live on.

986
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,839
You know, we need stories
of real heroes,

987
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,399
just ordinary people like Jim,

988
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:45,039
who chose to do the brave thing,
the right thing, you know?

989
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:46,800
John. Jim and John.

990
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,239
OFF-CAMERA: Should John be
remembered as a hero?

991
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,119
Completely, he is a hero.

992
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,639
100%, a hero.

993
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,400
Incredibly brave and heroic.

994
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:04,279
He has furthered the process
of journalism in its purest form,

995
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,160
which is to go into harm's way when
everybody else tells you not to.

996
00:58:08,161 --> 00:58:12,119
And if you don't have people
who are willing to do that,

997
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,279
men and women that are willing
to resist and go in harm's way,

998
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,559
then you won't ever have truth.

999
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,520
That should be the legacy
that people remember.

1000
00:58:22,570 --> 00:58:27,120
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